The Promo Playbook by Cubic Promote

What’s Next in Australia’s Promotional Products Industry with APPA’s Ciara Brennan

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Special Guest: Ciara Brennan (Sustainability Manager: APPA: Australian Promotional Products Association)

Host: Charles Liu (Owner: Cubic Promote)

Want proof that greener promo isn’t just possible but profitable? We sit down with sustainability manager Ciara Brennan from the Australian Promotional Products Association to unpack how real change happens when suppliers, distributors, and buyers stop deflecting and start collaborating. From translating dense legislation into clear playbooks to unlocking grants and coaching first-time ESG reports, Ciara shows how practical steps add up to meaningful emissions cuts without derailing budgets or timelines.

We dig into where Australia stands compared to Europe: faster solar adoption on one hand, tougher freight realities and looser recycling systems on the other. Ciara estimates a variable two-year gap and explains why a slow, steady transition is the most resilient choice. The surprise insight: the cheapest merchandise rarely wins. Customers want quality, story, and proof—signals that education beats discounts, and that transparency sells. That’s where ideas like the EU product passport come in: QR codes that reveal manufacturing location, water use, and freight mode, turning swing tags into powerful moments of truth.

Ciara also takes aim at the industry’s overreliance on offsets. She makes the case for “real zero” over “net zero,” prioritizing actions like electrifying fleets, choosing renewable energy, and switching to recyclable or compostable packaging. The bigger unlock is accountability—openly sharing supplier data, certification know-how, and best practices that raise the floor for everyone. By 2030, success looks like visible footprints, smarter procurement, less landfill-bound swag, and a culture where sustainability knowledge isn’t proprietary but shared.

If this conversation sparks ideas for your next campaign or sustainability plan, subscribe, share this episode with your team, and leave a review with the one change you’ll make this quarter. Your feedback guides our next deep dive.

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SPEAKER_01:

Welcome to today's podcast, the promo playboard by Cubic Promote. Today I have a very special guest, Ciara Brennan. Ciara Brennan is an environmental officer and APA, APA being the Australian Promotional Products Association. Ciara, welcome to our channel.

SPEAKER_00:

Thank you so much for having me.

SPEAKER_01:

Ciara, can you tell us a bit about APA and what they do, the Australian Promotional Products Association?

SPEAKER_00:

So APA is an association that represents businesses that are in the promotional product space. As their sustainability manager, my role is somewhat multifaceted in the sense that I go between research, development, and communication. So research will always be such a key part of any sustainability role simply because it's such a rapidly developing area. I tend to really keep on top of developments in terms of targets that are being set, legislation that has come in, and then take that information, which does tend to be very specific language that is used. And I dissect that and regurgitate it to our members in maybe a more accessible way, or taking the key points that are particularly relevant to our members and their businesses, because I'm sure you know yourself running a business, you don't always have the time to go and read a 50% or 50-page legal documents. Giving all of these little details. So that is where I lie a lot of the time. I will also look towards innovations in terms of sustainability and business and companies that are taking a novel approach, maybe leading by example in that sense and trying to apply that to businesses within promo as well. Grants and funding and things are always something that goes under the radar for, I guess, not good reason, but understandably so, because it is money that is being given away to businesses who are suitable for that type of funding. So again, coaching people through that is also part of what I do. And then development, which is mostly what I've been working on since starting at APA over a year ago now, is our first environmental reporting sustainability program. It's called Promoting a Better Future. And in that we are coaching our members through their first ESG reports and emissions reduction. And yeah, that's what APA and my role at APA has been for the last while.

SPEAKER_01:

Before we dive into that, I would really uh like to kind of understand a bit more about yourself and what motivates you? Was there a moment or you know, in your in your career, a moment or a problem that you saw and all of a sudden made you think, I want to be part of the solution. I want to be part of the environmental solution and not be a problem. What what made you choose this course in your career?

SPEAKER_00:

I think it's been a total natural progression. I was always really, really interested in nature, which led me to study ecology, zoology as my undergrad. And within that course, there was a lot of content on biodiversity and habitats, but also this elephant in the room of the impact that climate change was having on those exact things and how we were already seeing such great biodiversity loss. And it was sort of this moment where I thought, well, I better go and study climate change because that seems to be the source of the problem. And I want to really understand that and feel as though I can make a difference in preventing biodiversity loss or preventing loss of specific industries and areas, or at least allow them to continue in a way that is future-proofing almost because resources are finite and all of these things. Um, so yeah, it's been a very natural progression. And then once I have had finished my studies, I have very much dabbled in different areas of sustainability because I think that it is everywhere and it's an important aspect of most industries now. Um but I think what attracted me to sustainability in business is that it feels as though I have much more scope for having an impact because I am directly dealing with people who are making their these decisions that have that impact where I can say this is a more sustainable product that you could be offering, or this is a more environmentally friendly freight method that you could be using and different things like that. So I guess what has led me to this specific point is just wanting to have as much of a say and an impact as possible. And like you say, that kind of education um aspect really comes into this role a lot, which I really enjoy.

SPEAKER_01:

And if there's any industry that could do with a bit of shake up, both culturally and physically, it would be the promotional products industry. I'm not going to pretend, but our industry, we do produce a lot of merchandise into the marketplace, into the community. And this type of merchandise, if it was simply, in my eyes, just a small degree in change, where we focus more on sustainable production methods, where we focus on renewable and upcycling of using all uniforms and promotional products, it can and probably will make a very big difference environmentally. So diving into your your bread and butter, your 95, from where you're sitting right now, having access to a lot of data, both industry data, both I assume global data and Australian data, where's what's the honest state of sustainability in the promotional products industry right now? Do you see the Australian industry a bit behind, perhaps global standards, or perhaps we're further along than most people realize? Well, where do you see the current uh status of the Australian industry?

SPEAKER_00:

I think it's it's a difficult one because I think in order to, like you say, scale and accessibility is part of what drives success in any industry. So to make that sustainable, it's almost like a contradiction within itself. And for that reason, it's a very, very slow transition. So I don't think that even looking to global leaders like what is happening in Europe, it's still it could always be further along. There's always more that you could be doing, but it takes such a collaborative effort because businesses could act completely sustainably, but it may cause a slightly higher price point on their product, for example. And then if they aren't getting that support from consumers, there they they won't be able to continue operating in that way as a business. So it takes agreement from a lot of different sources, which is why I do think that a slow transition is what is going to be the most effective and the most sustainable because it's not going to cause this immediate shock in terms of the investment that's required or the price point for the end user or things like that. Um, I do think that Australia, to answer your point, to answer your question, is probably a little bit behind, but it's also something that is quite understandable just geographically. It takes so much more to get product here in terms of freight and all of that stuff. So I do really understand the position that Australia and New Zealand businesses are in. Um but and I also think maybe it's an advantageous position because we can almost look to the European market and use that as a foreshadowing for what will eventually make its way here, because that has been the case in the last couple of years, and even the biggest development on Australian soil has been the legislation that was passed in January of this year, which was mandating climate disclosures for businesses. And that was a huge step and something that had happened in Europe a couple of years ago. So, again, back to that initial point of a slow transition, we really have the power to do that because we can see what's coming and prepare for it and not have it be something that will cause any instability.

SPEAKER_01:

I I like that comparison with Europe, a continent clearly that has many similarities with Australia and seeing what they do and seeing how what they do or don't do, or what works and doesn't work, may apply to Australia's theme. Would we would you say we're a year behind, two years behind, three years behind? Would you be able to gauge in a meaningful way?

SPEAKER_00:

I think it depends on the area, because yes, there are a lot of similarities in terms of just being very developed in specific areas, but for example, Europe would rely a lot on wind and hydro energy, whereas Australia would rely more on solar. And solar is actually a much easier, more cost-effective installation. Um and I think yeah, there's certain areas, for example, waste that um are much more developed in Europe. The recycling um system here was something that I almost had to get used to because it is just a lot more relaxed and not quite as um stringent as what we see in Europe. And again, freight will always be a huge impactor on your emissions and just the fuels that are used. Um Europe tends to lean a lot more on renewable fuels than Australia. So it totally depends on the area in which you're speaking about. Um, but if you had to put a ballpark figure on it, maybe yeah, the two-year cycle is a good one to is a good one to land on.

SPEAKER_01:

A bit more to do from our part. I do hear you about recycling though. It's always been a pain point. So for many years, um many decades actually, I've been diligently sorting out my plastic bags, uh your plastics, cutting out our labels and tags, and they're really hard to do, especially where with those yogurt plastic bottles, you just can't really uh release those labels. And it's always been quite a painful process, and I wish it could be easier. If we were to wind the clock forward, imagine it's 2030 and you're looking back at the type of work that you've been doing, type of work that our industry has been doing, what would make you say, okay, as a holistic group, the work that I've done as a holistic industry, did I do a good job? Were the decisions that I made or collectively made as an industry a good one? What would make you say that?

SPEAKER_00:

Um I think even back to that collaborative point that I mentioned earlier, I see a lot in promo specifically that there tends to be a lack of accountability that if regardless of what position you're in, it's never there's always a reason why your actions aren't quite able to match your words or um your ambitions, because as a distributor, you you are limited by your suppliers and what products they have. But for me, I will always rebuttal to that with improve your supplier network. There are suppliers out there that will only give you sustainable product, or to the supplier point, well, we don't want to choose this sustainable item that costs 20 cents more per unit because the end user, there isn't the demand there, and then the end user will, I don't know, come with some other like tact for well, we don't have sustainable products readily available to us. So I think that there is just a lack of accountability, and that's where that disconnect happens. And I think it also stems from, particularly between supplier and distributor, um viewing a lot of information as being totally proprietary, which when it comes to sustainability, it absolutely isn't. It does not give you any market advantage to keep all of the efforts that you are making in the sustainability world under wraps. If you have gone through a process for becoming certified in B Corp or Ecovatis or anything, giving someone a leg up to get that certification after you have gone through the process and understand how it works, that is not going to diminish anything from your business or offer anything to this other person that you don't already have. And I think just working together in just five years, like you say, 20, 30, looking back, if if it was just a collaborative effort, I think that that would lead to the most development rather than any one specific change.

SPEAKER_01:

Accountability would be a very big topic from the sounds of it going forward. Um when I'm speaking with uh with clients, um, end suppliers have the luxury of doing both on any given day. I do hear a lot about uh people talking about the price points. To me, I don't really feel that it's a price point thing. To me, I feel it's more of an education thing. It does take more effort to communicate, but in order to get that outcome that you do want from an environmental point of view, that effort in most instances is worth the while taking that extra time, taking that extra conversation, the extra five to ten minutes just to speak to people. Most people may not realize about as a distributor, the cheapest items never sell. So it never was about price, because if it was about price, then you would have thought that the cheapest pens go out the door, the cheapest shirts go out the door, cheapest umbrellas. But every single category that I could even think about right now, from bottles in the books, the pens to umbrellas, the cheapest items has never sold. And so it goes to show that people are not looking specifically on price. But what they do want, though, is something of value, and what they do want is something that they have knowledge about. So I do feel that it's a knowledge education piece that leads to accountability, quite possibly.

SPEAKER_00:

100%. And I love that you said that because I will always use market research as a tool in arguing for offering more sustainable lines and more sustainable products, even at a higher price point, but have always been argued back down in the sense that there isn't the demand for it, or people will always go with the cheapest option. So I really love that you have seen that firsthand as a business owner that the cheapest products aren't the most attractive ones.

SPEAKER_01:

No, no. In fact, it's been like that for many years. Um because it's for most people the conversation is so easy to fall back on. I'm not doing anything for the environment because it costs too much. It's just such a simple, almost to a point of cliche type of comment. Imagine Apple. They gave you a magic wand this afternoon, and with this magic wand, you could change the behavior of every supplier, every distributor, and every customer. Let's just make it a very comprehensive magic wand. What are the first things that you're going to be changing?

SPEAKER_00:

I think I uh just as uh across the industry as a whole, and not just promo, but industry in general, um I would discourage the reliance on offsets. I think that that's something that I hear so often from our members, and it it is correct in the sense that you simply cannot operate entirely carbon neutral as a business without offsetting. But I do think that it's overly relied upon, and even with the 2035 national targets that had been set within that, there was a huge offset kind of reliance in terms of natural carbon sinks, in terms of actual offsetting projects. Whereas I read an article a couple of weeks ago about um the rainforests in far north Queensland, and they're the first in the world to actually be emitting more carbon than they're absorbing. And this is as a result of increasing temperatures, trees dying, and releasing excess carbon than what they're able to absorb. And to uh business offset offsetting projects that are businesses that are run, you really need to do your due diligence in the sense that these projects are actually monitored, that a tree that has been planted, you cannot just assume that that tree has grown successfully and has absorbed the amount of carbon that it should have without constant check-ins. Um, and also ensuring that they're native species, that it's not a monoculture, all of these things. And I just I would love for more people to adopt what IKEA actually has recently branded as real zero rather than net zero, which is improving practices and starting with your you and the decisions that you are making within your business, that you choose electric vehicles, you use renewable energy, you only supply recyclable, compostable packaging, things like that. Um, and also when we have brought the end user into this question as well, that they recycle that they buy what is needed and that they dispose of things in the correct way, even though, like you say, with your yogurt pots, it is tedious. But again, it comes to um an all-round view of what is needed at every stage. And I do think offsetting is something that really has had this surge of being a quick fix, and it's just not at all. Um so yeah, that would be that would be what I would love to get rid of.

SPEAKER_01:

So for the audience out there, I just wanted to define offset. Uh, offset is when a business in the course of doing the business would create carbon emissions, in other words. And the offset comes in the form of a marketplace where a trading transaction occurs between the people that produce negative emissions, they're able to purchase positive emissions. And the easiest uh example would be perhaps a farmer who's growing uh trees, but growing trees, but they go off and uh allocate an additional hectare to grow additional trees. So this farmer has created positive offsets. And so the carbon emitting company can now purchase through market mechanisms these positive carbon offsets from the from the farmer in order to balance out to net zero. Let's talk about swing tags. So if you could put a swing tag on every single product in Australia, um, it could be promo, uh, a promo product, could be uniform, or it could be a retail product, what would you like that swing tag to say? I'm guessing number one might be Australian-made, but other than that, well, what would you like the swing tags to say?

SPEAKER_00:

Well, this is actually really a really great question because exactly what I wanted is happening now in Europe. It's called the EU product passport. And whether it's through a QR or whether it's um actually printed on the label, it tends to say where the item was manufactured, where the item was manufactured, the water consumption that went into making that item, the method of freight that was used to get that item from its point of manufacture to the country that it's being sold in, and the yeah, the method of freight. Um, and I think that, like we had mentioned, education is so important. And I think that if that tag was on every item, when it gets to the end user and they see that, it just, regardless of whether they have any awareness of what those figures mean, whether they're good, bad, or indifferent, it just seeds that line of thinking. It makes you think, oh, I didn't realize that so many liters of water went into making a t-shirt because it's not a natural assumption as someone who isn't part of the industry or you know doesn't have that knowledge. And to allow someone to start thinking in that line where the next time they go to make a purchase, they will be looking out for these statistics and looking for the lowest one. Um, I think that would be really amazing.

SPEAKER_01:

I love that so much. A couple of things why I love it so much. The transparency is absolutely epic. If you were able to track each and every piece of the journey where the how and how where and how the product came to your uh to your orbit, if you like. And the second thing I think I love is the storytelling because yes, we talk about and we try and convince people using that. And in some instances, we use scare tactics. We use I mean other instances, we use uh nice tactics where we uh the speak of uh positive action in good terms. But in my mind, nothing ever beats the impact that storytelling can have on a person's behavior. And so that is that that is actually quite incredible. If, and you're right, if you were to put that on every swing tag in Australia, I think it would resonate a lot. Um people are very close to their phone, we know what QR codes are. Um, taking that one extra step to find out uh would be very, very epic.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01:

See, Ciara, thank you so much for your time. Uh Ciara, if the audience out there had any questions, would would they be able to contact APA yourself or myself through yourself? Is there a point of liaison or perhaps a social media appa has that engages with the community?

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, for sure. I will always encourage people to reach out to me because I think that I learn the most from conversations that I have with people in industry. And yeah, it's just my email, kiraappa.com.au. And whether it's something that you're interested in or something that you know more than me about, or whatever the inquiry is, I'm always so delighted to hear from people.

SPEAKER_01:

Amazing, amazing. To the audience out there, thank you so much for listening to the today's episode of the Promo Playbook by Cubic Promote. If anyone wants to get in touch with myself or Ciara, please use the social media link of your choice. We have Instagram, TikTok, LinkedIn, and uh an array of other social media, and we welcome feedback, good or bad, about this episode. Thank you so much to everyone for listening.

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Charles Liu

Host